Some corrections and additions to the Complete Peerage: Volume 5: Ferrers of Chartley

FERRERS OF CHARTLEY

See also "proposed" section

Volume 5, page 308:
He [Sir John de Ferrers, Lord Ferrers (d.1312)] m. ... Hawise, da. and h. of Sir Robert DE MUSCEGROS ... by Agnes, his wife.(c)
Note c:
According to the usual account, this Agnes was da. of William, Earl of Derby, by his second wife, Margaret de Quency. This is obviously impossible, for it would make John and Hawise first cousins.

Hawise must have been the daughter of Sir Robert de Muscegros by a wife previous to Agnes, as there is good evidence to support the "usual account", that Agnes was the daughter of William de Ferrers, earl of Derby, by Margaret, the daughter of Roger de Quency.

In 7 Edward I [1278 or 1279], Robert de Muscegros and Agnes held two thirds of the manor of Chinnor, Oxfordshire in free marriage, the other third being held by Oliver la Zouche [Rot. Hundredorum, vol.2, p.783]. This manor had been held by the de Quencys, and evidently divided among the three daughters and coheirs of Roger de Quency (d.1264) - Margaret, who married William de Ferrers, earl of Derby, Elizabeth, who married Alexander Comyn, earl of Buchan and Helen, who married Sir Alan la Zouche [Victoria County History, Oxfordshire, vol.8, p.58; Oliver la Zouche was a younger son of Sir Alan and Helen - see Complete Peerage, vol.12, part 2, p.934, note g]. In a charter concerning Sydenham, a hamlet of Chinnor, Agnes refers to Roger de Quency as her grandfather [Sir Christopher Hatton's Book of Seals, ed. L.C. Loyd and D.M. Stenton, no 95 (1950)]. There is a note of another charter in which she refers to Margaret de Ferrers, countess of Derby, as her mother [British Library, Add. MS, pencil fo.164]. (In view of this evidence, the statement of a jury, recorded in the Hundred Rolls [vol.2, p.783], that she was the daughter of Robert, earl of Derby - William's son - must be an error.)

If Agnes had been Hawise's mother, this would have made Hawise the first cousin of her husband John de Ferrers (who was the grandson of William de Ferrers, earl of Derby). This was clearly not the case, because when in 1300 the couple sought a dispensation to marry, it was because they were related in a much more tenuous way - Hawise had previously been espoused to William de Mortimer, without having consummated the marriage, and William had been related to John in the third degree [Cal. Papal Letters, vol.1, p.588].

Hawise must therefore have been the daughter of a wife of Robert de Muscegros previous to Agnes. (Hawise was born 21 December 1276 [Cal. Inq. p.m., vol.2, no 404], and the first appearance of Agnes as Robert's wife is in 7 Edward I [1278 or 1279].) The fact that Agnes sold her marriage-portion, the manor of Chinnor, to Robert de Sapey and his wife Aline in 1313 suggests that she had no children by Robert de Muscegros [Victoria County History, Oxfordshire, vol.8, p.58].

[Douglas Richardson argued that Agnes was not Hawise's mother in November 1999.]

Volume 5, pages 324, 325:
She [Jane, widow of Sir Walter Devereux, Lord Ferrers (he d. 1485)] m., 4thly, before 31 May 1502, Thomas POYNTZ: both were living 9 Nov. 1512.

Jane was married to Thomas Poyntz by 12 June 1500 [Transactions of the Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaelogical Society, volume 6, pp. 148, 149 (1881-2)], [Calendar of inquisitions post mortem, Henry VII, vol. 3, p. 402 (no 739)]. and both were still living 26 February 1520/1 [abstract of Gloucestershire Record Office, D1086/T2/25, Discovery Catalogue, National Archives].

[The limit on the marriage date was provided by Douglas Richardson in March 2004, and the date of survival by Tony Ingham in May 2004.
Item last updated: 30 May 2004.]